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Messages - Mark The Shark

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Thanks for posting that video.  I tried watching it to see what Curly was watching (although that was a 1953 episode, I'm sure it was similar to what Curly watched when he was alive), but it was pretty painful to watch.  I'm guessing that Janie got more of a kick out of it than Curly did. 

Yeah, most likely he watched it with Janie, just like my mom used to watch Bozo and Ray Rayner with me when I was a kid. It is kind of stagey, like TV of that era. Later they made an animated series out of it:

(There is one episode involving IIRC, a creature called the "Three-Headed Threep," which sports the heads of Moe, Larry and Curly. I didn't find it doing a quick You Tube search. I have a fondness for these characters having watched them on local Chicago TV as a kid.)

I also found this, what is billed as "Jackie Gleason's first TV Show" in October 1949:

I know Curly had a massive stroke in the beginning of 1949 but I would bet that he watched the very episode above, and perhaps some of those that followed.  I watched a few minutes and it was actually kind of funny.

Thanks for the Riley link. I had not seen The Life Of Riley before. It was based on a radio show with an actor named William Bendix, with Gleason playing the role in the TV series. Later, they did a second TV version with Bendix.

I would have guessed if Curly appreciated Gleason, he may have seen him on Cavalcade Of Stars, but then I remembered he wasn't the original host of that series. He took it over in 1950 -- I don't know the exact timeline of Curly's health decline, but I would doubt Curly ever saw "The Honeymooners" as the first skit was performed only a couple months before he passed away.

It's interesting to watch stuff that some of our favorite performers watched, and imagine how it might have influenced them.

It was "Time For Beany" -- created by Bob Clampett, featuring the voices of Stan Freberg and Daws Butler:

Clampett later brought them back in the animated series "Matty's Funnies With Beany & Cecil" (sponsored by Mattell Toys)

I think it would depend if he was going out to the movies at that point in his life. What I've read suggests he watched television and had his favorites, but the Stooge shorts wouldn't have been on television at that point. Of course, over time his condition got worse and I wonder if he was even watching television. I remember seeing quotes from a letter Moe wrote to Curly about Shemp filling in for him, and Moe said something like "it may encourage you, and in a way delight you, to know..." so I would guess Curly was glad to know his brother stepped in and the Stooges were able to continue (for what was considered officially at the time) temporarily until his return.

I picked up the DVD some time ago and watched it, I think just once.

It was OK. Not great. I was expecting to hate it, but I didn't hate it. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread though, this is not a Three Stooges film in the sense of "a film with the real Three Stooges in it." This film is to the Three Stooges what For Love Or Mummy is to Laurel and Hardy, i.e. a tribute or homage, or ripoff if you prefer.

Two things that stand out for me -- it's been quite some time since I watched it -- first, after watching it for a while, the thought crossed my mind that instead of watching this, I could just watch the real Three Stooges.

The second thing -- if you make it all the way through the end, maybe it's just me but I laughed out loud at the performance of the Spinners' "It's A Shame" with the Curly character doing the high falsetto part. It was worth watching for that alone.

It was fun, nothing great. I kind of liked the idea of the Moe character being on Jersey Shore (even though I've never watched Jersey Shore myself).

This movie's existence doesn't threaten the legacy of the "real" Stooges. The 190 shorts (and more) are safe and sound on my shelf, available to be watched any time.

Weekly Episode Discussions / Re: Malice In the Palace (1949)
« on: July 26, 2015, 05:46:11 PM »
Summer 2003 -- Issue #106 of The Three Stooges Journal arrives and contains Brent Seguine's article providing additional clues.  Most importantly, the article highlights two lines of dialogue written for a chef character in the original script.  These include "Fix it yourself...I'm going to lunch" and " don't think I'd eat in this dump."   Based on this, it is pretty clear that a small chef role was part of the original plan, and based on the publicity still, that role was intended for Curly.

Back in 1989 there was an article in The Three Stooges Journal called "Notes from a meeting with Moe Howard"

I don't have it in front of me, but from memory the author took several notes during one of Moe's lectures in the early 1970s. The author mentioned this was before any books had been written on the Stooges (aside from a chapter in one or two Leonard Maltin books) and Moe spoke of Curly's illness and retirement. From memory -- Moe had said after Curly's retirement, he "appeared twice later -- on a train, and as a chef who left to go somewhere else to eat." This absolutely corroborates the above. Now, whether it was actually filmed or not, who knows -- and since the footage went unused and was presumably junked, I guess it doesn't matter.

Last couple of years -- Various issues of Three Stooges Journal have included candid photos of Curly in the post-stroke era.  Most show him seated, with a cane.  Seeing these photos is wonderful.  But they do make clear that Curly’s glory days were behind him by this point in his life.  Also fueling the Malice debate has been a series of photo comparisons, showing the facial features of the chef in the publicity still versus the facial characteristics of Curly taken from other sources.  In my opinion, these comparisons make clear that the chef in the publicity still is indeed Curly.

2015 – When I look at the Malice publicity still now, I see it in a very different light.  I look at the piece of furniture directly behind Curly (to me, it appears to be flush against him) and see it as a support system providing stability so Curly doesn’t fall backwards.  Similarly, I see Curly’s left hand on Larry’s head as being a means of maintaining Curly’s balance, with Larry serving as the anchor.  Lastly, I wonder if the apron around Curly’s lower body conceals something providing additional support to him, like a brace.

The things that come with the passage of time!

The above makes a lot of sense. I'll have to go back and watch the relevant parts again, but there are a lot of clips from Howard family home movies in the recent Hey Moe! Hey Dad! documentary miniseries, and I recall at least one that appeared to be "post-retirement" Curly (maybe Joan's wedding, or his own wedding?) where he appeared to be in better shape than is generally described. But then, (1) whether it's from 1947 or 1949 probably makes a big difference in his health, and (2) whatever I saw had to have been only a seconds-long clip. I think the brothers are standing together and Shemp walks over to Curly and kisses him. One would "like to think" that Curly would have been up to saying two lines, but the scene in question wouldn't have been scrapped for no reason...

One other thing...I wonder health-wise, if by the time of filming Hold That Lion! Curly was in better or worse shape than he'd been when filming his last shorts. Again, it probably doesn't matter...

General Discussion / Re: Our Gang/The Little Rascals thread
« on: July 16, 2015, 12:35:36 PM »
Wow, thanks! It surprises me that at this stage of their career, a reviewer would make note of a change in Healy's Stooges/Racketeers/Southern Gentlemen/Gang personnel, especially just one of them. But I'm glad someone did, since that nails it down.

So where did that story of Sanborn "filling in" (as first mentioned in, IIRC, The Three Stooges Scrapbook) come from then? I also note that when he first steps on stage during Plane Nuts, Curly seems to be doing some of Sanborn's schtick. Next time he comes out, he's essentially Curly.

Who would have thought that at this late date, so many of these questions pertaining to relative minutae could be answered.

Now you've got me wanting to go searching for any kind of ad that might back up the Howard, Howard and Howard story.

I just looked at the ad again. So you're saying Shemp performed with the act one night, and BAM! Curly replaced him the next night? I would have thought there would have been some "down time," but given they were brothers, maybe Shemp stuck it out until everything was covered.

General Discussion / Re: Our Gang/The Little Rascals thread
« on: July 11, 2015, 05:51:58 PM »
Ref., Mickey Rooney

After the "McGuire" series ended, and before Mickey arrived at MGM renamed Mickey Rooney, he made personal appearances at theaters around the country as 'Mickey McGuire.'  One of those appearances was at Cleveland OH's RKO Palace Theater on August 28, 1932.  On the bill with Mickey were Ted Healy & His Stooges.

August 28, 1932... the day Jerome 'Curly' Howard premiered in the act.  This was the act's next gig after Shemp quit on August 19 in NYC.  It's interesting that up until just 1 year ago, an eyewitness to that milestone was still alive.

I know I'm late responding to this, but I want to thank Brent for posting this ad.

I just wonder though -- I know you know your stuff, and if you say "this happened at this location on this date" I would tend to believe you -- but I'm just curious how you nailed those dates down for Shemp's final appearance (until the 1940s) and Curly's debut. Then what of the supposed period where Fred Sanborn would have stepped in between the two?

And furthermore -- who are those three other names listed as Racketeers beneath Howard, Fine and Howard?

Also -- in his book One Fine Stooge, author Steve Cox mentions that Larry Fine's notes cite a one-off performance (on an unknown date, at an unknown venue, under an unknown group name) of Moe, Shemp and Curly (apparently without Larry and without Ted Healy). Has anyone ever found anything to substantiate this?

I've never seen PHONEY CRONIES. I wonder what gives with the generic title cards.


That's the standard intro for Official Films, a home-movie reissue company, dating from the 1940s I believe. I also have seen a version of "Glove Slingers" with that title format, and several of the Hal Roach Little Rascals shorts circulate with that intro. I wonder how much of the Columbia stuff they released, and if any "still missing or unaccounted for" titles could be found that way?

Stooges DVD/VHS/Home Video / Re: Myrt And Marge
« on: July 08, 2015, 07:55:09 PM »
That would be great -- one of the few pieces that are still missing, or at least MIA as far as an official video release. I'd be glad to see it come out.

On the second disc, towards the end of episode 5 ("Good Night And Good Nyuk") -- about 45 minutes in -- there is a brief clip of what looks like a color home movie shot on the set of Three Little Pirates. Moe and Curly are in costume with Moe's wife, Helen (at least I think it's her) -- is that Shemp walking around from behind them? (The whole thing is just a few seconds long.) I guess that would make sense, seeing how he was working at Columbia doing his own shorts at the time.


They really didn't.  A hefty fee was paid to Sony, and it remains to be seen if sales at that price point will generate a return.

Well, I highly recommend it. There have been a lot of documentaries on the Stooges, and a lot of "anniversary" type releases which just regurgitate the same public domain stuff. This ain't one of those. They did a very nice job. Hopefully it will pay off and encourage more quality stuff. Not that there's all that much that hasn't been released by now. You know what would be cool, if they released Three Stooges Scrapbook. Or maybe that would involve playing ball with whoever has the elements? Other than that, what else is left (that C3 would own)?

Not C3 related, but as far as anyone knows, are the Stooges' appearances on Texaco Star Theatre and Colgate Comedy Hour extant?

I find it interesting that the closing end title music used in Horses' Collars was also used in many Charley Chase Columbia shorts.

I've watched quite a bit of it. It's very nicely done, and I actually have learned (or have a better understanding of) a few things I didn't know. Nothing like hearing the stories from someone who was there, or who knows family history. Also, from the preview I expected just the usual public domain B-roll clips, but there is a lot of great stuff in here, especially Howard/Horwitz family home movies and so forth. I was surprised to see that they managed to use clips of so many different Columbia and M-G-M films -- I wonder how they worked all that out without jacking the price up. I picked it up at Best Buy and it's a great deal.

Questions and Answers / Re: Odd thing in FIFI BLOWS HER TOP
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:04:56 PM »
Sounds to me like audio carried over into the next shot from the end of the previous take where Moe conks Joe on the dome. Sometimes Besser would add little things like that at the end of a scene or take, Like in Muscle up.. "Yeah, they're good snoopers! They're..." and you see he's still talkin' during the fade, but it is muted and the scene changes right over.

Re the "they're wonderful snoopers, they're..." thing:

There is another similar example in another short -- possibly "Brideless Groom" IIRC -- where Shemp is on the phone and he asks the operator to connect him to "Susquehanna 2-2-2-2." Right after he says the number, he continues talking with the audio muted and you can see he is repeating "2-2-2-2." I suspect this may have been a common device used in the production of the shorts: to repeat the last line of dialogue in a scene at the point where (in the final finished film) the scene fades out or transitions to the next scene, to give the impression that the conversation continues (if that makes any sense). It's kind of along the lines of a crowd of extras repeating "rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb" so it just sounds like random talking. I bet the "They're wonderful snoopers, they're..." instance was likely a case of someone being asleep at the switch and fading the audio down one word too late.

I'm really just guessing at this, but that's my theory.

Swap Meet / Re: Elusive Laurel and Hardy dvds..
« on: January 25, 2015, 06:41:39 PM »
These foreign language versions have some interesting stuff at times.  I remember the Spanish version of CHICKENS COME HOME being an hour long and having some strange and entertaining variety show type stuff, and I think Symona Boniface pops up in one of these that I recall, I want to say the Spanish version of BLOTTO.  She sits down on a wet seat and gets her dress all wet.  Don't have much to add on the Spanish PARDON US other then to say I would love to see it.

Going through those early shorts yesterday, I was reminded of that existing reel of NOW I'LL TELL ONE.  I have been doing research and can't seem to find it on DVD.  Do any of you guys know if it's been released?

IIRC it came out on an internet-only DVD from an outlet called LOOSER THAN LOOSE, run by someone from the Sons Of The Desert organiztion. Don't know if it's still available.

Swap Meet / Re: Elusive Laurel and Hardy dvds..
« on: January 25, 2015, 08:32:50 AM »
I would like to have this too. I stumbled on it almost by accident once a few years ago when I found a listing for it on some website from Spain, and when I discovered it, it was already sold out.

Did this air on TCM? If it did, I missed it. I know it was shown on American Movie Classics back in the 1990s, only one time if I remember correctly. Not only that, IIRC it didn't run at the time it was scheduled, it was delayed that night (or I messed up, which is more likely). And this was back in the VHS days, so I attempted to "time-record" it and messed up.

I know the fire scene from the ending was included as an extra somewhere, I think on the German DVD set.

One odd thing I remember: I picked up a VHS copy of this many years ago from A-1 Video (run by Alex Bartosh). The transfer was OK, not great, and had the A-1 Video logo in the corner throughout. But this really threw me: the print used had Film Classics titles with the plaque, with "Stan Laurel y Oliver Hardy." This means at some point in time (1940s?) this was either re-released by Film Classics or was going to be re-released; either way, they made a reissue intro for it. But weren't those Spanish Hal Roach films found in a vault at M-G-M in the 1980s?

I'm still not clear on why this didn't make the "Essential Collection." I vaguely recall reading some cryptic comments about some kind of legal issues. Maybe this came from some other source different from the "usual suspects?"

General Discussion / Re: HELLO POP Has Been Found!
« on: June 29, 2014, 11:53:00 AM »
Sorry to keep throwing this into everyone's face, but here's a reply straight from Warner Archive themselves. It sounds like a Stooge short DVD set is in the works, it's just a question of how long will we have to wait.

I really hope they'll include 'Roast Beef And Movies' on there too, despite that there is only one Stooge instead of the usual three.

Anyway, here it is:

Warner Archive Collection commented on your post.
Warner Archive Collection wrote:
"We will release a collection of MGM Stooges shorts, remastered, including HELLO POP. We do not have any date to announce at this time."

It's okay. I can wait. I just keep mumbling to myself, "I will not become obsessed - I will not become obsessed - I will not become obsessed"

I would hope "Roast Beef" is there too, but if not, I can live with that, since it and "Plane Nuts" were released as extras with "Dancing Lady." It would be awesome if "Jailbirds Of Paradise" could show up, but what are the odds? (I hope they're not waiting for that to happen before releasing the collection, unless they know something I don't know!)

General Discussion / Re: HELLO POP Has Been Found!
« on: May 24, 2014, 05:13:58 PM »
You may want to consider contacting them via their Facebook page. If someone posts a question to their wall, they are usually pretty good about answering it. And if the film/show in question is one with "elements" or "rights" issues, they usually will be upfront and mention it. They have someone who actually looks into this stuff and responds in a timely manner. Maybe you'd get a better answer than just by e-mailing them.

Just a thought.

Just for the heck of it, I decided to fire off an e-mail to Warner Archive about this very subject - I've copied it below.

Thank you for your interest in the Warner Archive. We're thrilled to be offering many titles from the Warner Bros vaults that were never before released on DVD. While we can't comment on release plans for specific titles, we can tell you that each month, more and more films and TV series will be made available. To be notified as new titles become available, you can sign up for our mailing list here:

Just check the box at the bottom to receive updates specifically on the Warner Archive. Thank you for visiting us, and we hope that you'll check out some of the titles we're currently offering, and check back soon to see more.

Monday-Friday 8:00 am 8:00 pm EST
Saturday 9:00 am to 6:00 pm EST

Customer feedback

Would it ever be possible for you to release 'Hello Pop', the long-lost Three Stooges short in the near future?

On behalf of myself, and other die-hard Stooge fans, we'd love to finally see it.

Warner Bros - | 4000 Warner Blvd | Burbank, CA 91522 | United States

And notice how I made reference to 'other die-hard Stooge fans', or as they're more commonly known, YOU GUYS! [pie]

Stooges DVD/VHS/Home Video / Re: Columbia VHS Tapes
« on: April 20, 2014, 12:45:56 PM »
Just one last question, how exactly did Heavenly Daze end up on the Legend Films Extreme Rarities DVD?

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it even on a tape with the usual Public Domain shorts?

IIRC a video company released that one on Beta/VHS some time back in the 1980s along with the other "usual four." It was believed to be public domain on some technicality -- either registered under a working title, or improper copyright notice or something. I think it might have the wrong year in the copyright notice. Either way, as far as I know it turns out that it is legitimately copyrighted, Legend Films' colorized version notwithstanding.

General Discussion / Re: Stooges TV release question
« on: April 04, 2014, 07:37:23 PM »
I recall seeing "So Long, Mr. Chumps" on WTAE-4 in Pittsburgh in the early '70s-probably tuned in in progress-and seeing the original 1940-42 Columbia Short Subject Presentation logo at the end. However when the same short aired years later on then-independent Channel 22 when they had the Stooges the Screen Gems logo was shown at the end as well as the beginning.

Interesting -- for some reason, this short showed up on Channel 32 in Chicago in the mid-1980s with a Columbia logo at the beginning accompanied by the Screen Gems fanfare. Must have been a fairly newer film print struck after Screen Gems became Columbia Pictures Television. By the late 1980s, Channel 32 was skipping the Screen Gems intros unless they had music behind them that continued into the title sequence.

I saw other shorts with a silent Columbia logo after this, once the Stooges moved to WPWR-Channel 50. But not very many.

General Discussion / Re: Stooges TV release question
« on: April 04, 2014, 07:02:18 AM »
In answer to Squirrelbait's question, I can contribute that the Stooges first aired in Boston in maybe '59 or '60 on WNAC-TV channel seven,  both before school ( 7 A M ) and after school (4.30 or 5.00 P M).  In the early going, they played many non-stooge Columbia shorts as well: I clearly remember Andy Clyde, Buster Keaton, solo Joe DeRita, and ( I think ) El Brendel.  I remember Shemp's Mr. Noisy, but that's the only one of his solos I remember.  I think I even remember one or two of those boxing shorts, Glove-slingers, or Glove Busters, or whatever they were.  The non-stooge shorts were phased out fairly quickly.  The morning show had no host, but the evening show was hosted by an actor named Ed. T McDonnell, who played an astronaut character named Major Mudd ( he was pretty damn funny, as I recall  55 years later ) and who appeared as Bat Masterson in The Outlaws is Coming.  With the coming of UHF stations later, the Stooges were run on channel 38, whose call letters I don't remember.  38 kept them on for ages, my bet would be that most Bostonian stoogeophiles remember them from 38 rather than 7.

Early on in Chicago, the Stooges were on WGN-Channel 9 and originally hosted by Carl Greyson (with Chatter the chimp) and then by Bob Bell as "Andy Starr," custodian at the Odeon Theatre. At one point, they were showing Andy Clyde and Buster Keaton along with the Stooges. Some years ago, I saw a photo of Bob Bell as Andy Starr standing by a theatre marquee or poster listing the Three Stooges, Buster Keaton, Andy Clyde, and...W.C. Fields! My guess would be WGN had Fields' Paramount shorts, but there weren't very many of them, so if they showed them, they had to spread them pretty thin.

I don't know of any of the other Columbia comedy shorts (besides the Stooges, Andy Clyde and Buster Keaton) airing on Chicago TV. I do know there was a TV package of various shorts featuring various comedians, with selected titles, i.e. they wouldn't have had ALL the Andy Clyde shorts.

General Discussion / Re: Stooges TV release question
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:38:57 AM »
No problem. One odd thing I remember for some reason -- I rented that Vol. 1 tape back in the 1980s. On the cover, it listed "A Bird In The Head" first but on the tape, "Dizzy Pilots" played first. Then some years later I rented a different copy (I never got around to buying many of the Columbia tapes) and it was just the reverse: "Dizzy Pilots" was listed first on the cover, but "A Bird In The Head" played first on the tape. "We all put the yeast in!" I honestly don't remember if the end title was different, or if the formerly edited scenes were restored.

I also remember getting a catalog from Soitenly Stooges, back when they were based in the north suburbs of Chicago and Harry Ross was running it. They carried the Columbia VHS tapes but they started with Volume 6. I asked Harry Ross and he told me the first five were actually deleted somewhere along the line. Later, they were re-released along with the rest in new packaging which used the title of one of the shorts rather than a volume number. They released a half-dozen volumes in the late 1980s which had one "new-to-video" (at that time) short and two repeats from earlier volumes, even though many shorts had yet to be released. Later, those were deleted and the six "new" shorts were compiled into two new volumes. We have it easy these days with DVD!

Thanks for the heads up and caveats. I have looked for this set in brick and mortar stores but have not run across it yet. The only film included that I don't already have on DVD is Time Out For Rhythm so it sounds like I'd be better off just getting the Sony Select version of that title. It's worth a few extra bucks to me. Sounds like I should be glad I have the Sony version of The Outlaws Is Coming!

I still would have preferred a full-screen option for these 1960s features, by the way. Yes, I know they would have been seen in theatres for their brief original releases in matted widescreen, but for the rest of their lives on TV it would have been full-frame until very recently. I find it really weird that of all the 1960s features, the one actually filmed in Cinemascope (as opposed to being projected matted), Snow White And The Three Stooges, was released on DVD both in widescreen and "pan and scan," which is completely different than open-matte.

General Discussion / Re: Stooges TV release question
« on: March 25, 2014, 11:56:18 AM »
I think the Screen Gems logo you speak of was on all 190 shorts. But depending on which of the three packages a short was in, they could differ in how it was used. Elsewhere, I posted a list of 61 of the first 78 Stooge shorts released to TV in 1958 -- the 61 titles initially aired by WGN-Channel 9 in Chicago, compiled many years ago by a friend who combed through microfilm at a library, pre-internet. Anyway, the shorts generally had it at the beginning and also at the end, and on the early (pre-1940) shorts it would replace the visuals of the Columbia Pictures logo while the original audio played. Later TV prints were often restored to the original Columbia logo, but I remember seeing a print of "Restless Knights" on TBS in the late 1980s which had a non-original Columbia logo "plastered" over the original (probably to replace the Screen Gems logo) while the audio was intact. Many (though not all) shorts had the Screen Gems logo replacing the end title, normally with the original audio playing -- but in Chicago, WFLD-Channel 32's print of "Calling All Curs" abruptly spliced to the Screen Gems logo with fanfare audio. "A Bird In The Head" as first released on Beta and VHS had a Screen Gems logo replacing the original end title, even though Columbia's name wasn't on the end title to cover up.

I kind of miss the Screen Gems logo. Many of the mid-1940s shorts on DVD have a silent Columbia logo added at the beginning, but that's different. It seems to have been added because on those particular shorts, the Columbia Pictures name isn't on the main title preceding the words "The Three Stooges." But I don't believe it to be original. It would have been fun to have some shorts on DVD with the Screen Gems intro.

General Discussion / Re: HELLO POP Has Been Found!
« on: February 18, 2014, 07:54:11 PM »
I haven't heard anything about this in ages - is anything new happening?

When can we hope for a DVD release? (Sorry to make waves, I'm just REEEEALLY impatient! ;D)

Maybe they're waiting until they find "Jailbirds Of Paradise."

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