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1
And I think it comes as no surprise that an entire Laurel & Hardy short, PUTTING PANTS ON PHILIP, is a sequence of kilt gags, directed by Clyde Bruckman!

We need to have a Clyde Bruckman discussion/debate one of these days.

Maybe we could use Bruckman as a topic for a possible 6th installation of the Master Debates.  ;)
2
Weekly Episode Discussions / Re: Future discussions
« Last post by metaldams on April 29, 2017, 06:40:15 PM »
Coming back to this...

Would folks be more willing to participate if I started doing some kind of talkies on the side?  I can't guarantee weekly until I have better circumstances, but it's something?

I really just think it's lack of interest outside of The Stooges.  I'm just thankful for the few who are participating, and think there's a chance another person or two may join in with Keaton proper.
3
Weekly Episode Discussions / Re: Future discussions
« Last post by Paul Pain on April 29, 2017, 06:23:40 PM »
Coming back to this...

Would folks be more willing to participate if I started doing some kind of talkies on the side?  I can't guarantee weekly until I have better circumstances, but it's something?
4
Agreed totally.  Stuff like the kilt gag mentioned above strictly belong in Keaton's world.  I have no doubt he was an influence behind the scenes, and the fact Keaton's first shorts already show a comic fully arrived lead me to believe he learned, grew, and created with Arbuckle.  I'm sure they influenced each other.  I give Arbuckle credit for allowing Keaton the chance.

And I think it comes as no surprise that an entire Laurel & Hardy short, PUTTING PANTS ON PHILIP, is a sequence of kilt gags, directed by Clyde Bruckman!

We need to have a Clyde Bruckman discussion/debate one of these days.
5
I've seen a couple of Arbuckle's solo features: THE ROUND-UP (which Buster Keaton is also believed to have appeared in) and LIFE OF THE PARTY. I remember him feeling very forced into THE ROUND-UP, which was overall not a very interesting film. LIFE OF THE PARTY was much better, featuring Arbuckle as a candidate for mayor who gets into several situations that could cost him the election. I find it interesting how much Arbuckle's character seemed to grow throughout these years. Whereas in OH, DOCTOR! he is very easily seduced by a vamp, in LIFE OF THE PARTY, he is not interested in her at all.

Also, I highly recommend the film, THE RED MILL, which Arbuckle directed under the pseudonym William Goodrich. It stars Marion Davies, who I don't think was a particularly great dramatic actress, but was a very good comedienne, especially under a good comedy director like Arbuckle.

Also, I checked out your YouTube videos and thought they were really good. Now please don't gouge my eyes out.  :laugh:

You know, I have seen LIFE OF THE PARTY, now that you've mentioned it!  It's been over ten years, and on VHS.  THE ROUND UP I've definitely not seen.  Agree about Roscoe's character.

Had no clue Roscoe directed Marion Davies either.  Have seen SHOW PEOPLE and THE PATSY, but not THE RED MILL.

Thanks for the compliment on my videos.
6
Interesting that Keaton does indeed get more footage as these things go on, but he must have been proving himself invaluable behind the scenes to get promoted to head comic instantly when Arbuckle left.  He must have been gag-writing, directing, etc, because he certainly doesn't have all that much more footage as an actor.  Somehow Schenck  ( sp? ) must have realized that he had a franchise player here.

Agreed totally.  Stuff like the kilt gag mentioned above strictly belong in Keaton's world.  I have no doubt he was an influence behind the scenes, and the fact Keaton's first shorts already show a comic fully arrived lead me to believe he learned, grew, and created with Arbuckle.  I'm sure they influenced each other.  I give Arbuckle credit for allowing Keaton the chance.
7
Interesting that Keaton does indeed get more footage as these things go on, but he must have been proving himself invaluable behind the scenes to get promoted to head comic instantly when Arbuckle left.  He must have been gag-writing, directing, etc, because he certainly doesn't have all that much more footage as an actor.  Somehow Schenck  ( sp? ) must have realized that he had a franchise player here.
8
We might, in the future, discuss the Shemp Vitagraphs (the ones available on YouTube, anyhow), including the ones starring Roscoe.  I've only seen IN THE DOUGH, but it was an excellent film given the circumstances.

We'll get to a Buster feature direct by Mr. Goodrich as well, SHERLOCK, JR.

Roscoe really got treated unfairly.  But thank heavens several Keaton films will address this!
9
      A very enjoyable way to end the Arbuckle/Keaton series.  The only thing that prevents me from giving this a ten is that the whole motivation for the male romantic character is a bit muddy to me, but really a minor point in an otherwise highly fun and unpretentious slapstick comedy.  Yes, this film, more than the others, really feels like Arbuckle and Keaton are a team.  Perhaps they knew this was their last film together and they wanted to give Keaton a push before starting his solo career?  Not really sure, just a guess on my part.  This is the last film, either way, where it's not 100 percent pure stone faced Buster,  as you do see some animated grimaces and smiles, though not many.  The scene where they have close ups of Buster grimacing as the dog chews on his backside? You'll never see that in a Buster solo film. 

      As usual, the falls in these things garner big laughs.  There's one Arbuckle takes where he's sitting down next to Keaton while Keaton is working under the hood of a car.  Some explosion causes Arbuckle to burst up and fall on the ground with oil on his face...got a big laugh out of me.  The physicality of these Arbuckle films are great, and there's an example.

       The whole gag where Keaton cuts out the kilt from the billboard and uses it, and later Arbuckle, to cover his boxers from the cop and the lady feels pure Keaton.  When Arbuckle joins the gag, the camera angle and the constant shape shifting between the two comedians to hide Buster's exposed boxers from the back have that gloriously mechanical Keaton feel we will be discussing for a while.  The whole gag of Arbuckle and Keaton getting caught on the high wire and then landing in the car is a wonderful way to end the series.

      As for the aftermath, Keaton got his own solo short series which we'll be discussing, so I won't go into that.  As for Arbuckle, he remained at Paramount and made feature films.  Very few survive, I've only seen and own LEAP YEAR.  My understanding is Arbuckle made several features, sometimes two or three at a time, and he was given a lot of stage properties not exactly written for him.  Think Keaton in THE SAPHEAD, which we'll be discussing soon.  I would like to think Arbuckle may have gained some independence and would have had the chance to make his own films that could compete with Chaplin, Keaton, and Lloyd as the twenties went on, but alas, we'll never know.  September 5, 1921 was a fateful day in his life that got him banned from Hollywood for over ten years, even though he was legally found innocent.  The whole scandal has books dedicated to it, but below is a link to the Wikipedia portion, for the basics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle#The_scandal

      After years directing films incognito, in 1932, Arbuckle was back in films making six shorts for Vitagraph Studios.  A few of them had earlier film appearances of some guy named Shemp.  After the six shorts were made, Arbuckle signed a feature film contract at Warner Brothers and then died in his sleep of a heart attack that night, age 46.  A very sad end.  I really wish we could have seen Arbuckle be independent and do his thing in the twenties, but as it stands, he was number two behind Chaplin in the mid to late teens.  For further viewing, I recommend the 1914 Sennett short he made with Chaplin called THE ROUNDERS and one of the many films he did with Mabel Normand, 1915's FATTY AND MABEL ADRIFT.

9/10

I've seen a couple of Arbuckle's solo features: THE ROUND-UP (which Buster Keaton is also believed to have appeared in) and LIFE OF THE PARTY. I remember him feeling very forced into THE ROUND-UP, which was overall not a very interesting film. LIFE OF THE PARTY was much better, featuring Arbuckle as a candidate for mayor who gets into several situations that could cost him the election. I find it interesting how much Arbuckle's character seemed to grow throughout these years. Whereas in OH, DOCTOR! he is very easily seduced by a vamp, in LIFE OF THE PARTY, he is not interested in her at all.

Also, I highly recommend the film, THE RED MILL, which Arbuckle directed under the pseudonym William Goodrich. It stars Marion Davies, who I don't think was a particularly great dramatic actress, but was a very good comedienne, especially under a good comedy director like Arbuckle.

Also, I checked out your YouTube videos and thought they were really good. Now please don't gouge my eyes out.  :laugh:
10
      A very enjoyable way to end the Arbuckle/Keaton series.  The only thing that prevents me from giving this a ten is that the whole motivation for the male romantic character is a bit muddy to me, but really a minor point in an otherwise highly fun and unpretentious slapstick comedy.  Yes, this film, more than the others, really feels like Arbuckle and Keaton are a team.  Perhaps they knew this was their last film together and they wanted to give Keaton a push before starting his solo career?  Not really sure, just a guess on my part.  This is the last film, either way, where it's not 100 percent pure stone faced Buster,  as you do see some animated grimaces and smiles, though not many.  The scene where they have close ups of Buster grimacing as the dog chews on his backside? You'll never see that in a Buster solo film. 

      As usual, the falls in these things garner big laughs.  There's one Arbuckle takes where he's sitting down next to Keaton while Keaton is working under the hood of a car.  Some explosion causes Arbuckle to burst up and fall on the ground with oil on his face...got a big laugh out of me.  The physicality of these Arbuckle films are great, and there's an example.

       The whole gag where Keaton cuts out the kilt from the billboard and uses it, and later Arbuckle, to cover his boxers from the cop and the lady feels pure Keaton.  When Arbuckle joins the gag, the camera angle and the constant shape shifting between the two comedians to hide Buster's exposed boxers from the back have that gloriously mechanical Keaton feel we will be discussing for a while.  The whole gag of Arbuckle and Keaton getting caught on the high wire and then landing in the car is a wonderful way to end the series.

      As for the aftermath, Keaton got his own solo short series which we'll be discussing, so I won't go into that.  As for Arbuckle, he remained at Paramount and made feature films.  Very few survive, I've only seen and own LEAP YEAR.  My understanding is Arbuckle made several features, sometimes two or three at a time, and he was given a lot of stage properties not exactly written for him.  Think Keaton in THE SAPHEAD, which we'll be discussing soon.  I would like to think Arbuckle may have gained some independence and would have had the chance to make his own films that could compete with Chaplin, Keaton, and Lloyd as the twenties went on, but alas, we'll never know.  September 5, 1921 was a fateful day in his life that got him banned from Hollywood for over ten years, even though he was legally found innocent.  The whole scandal has books dedicated to it, but below is a link to the Wikipedia portion, for the basics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle#The_scandal

      After years directing films incognito, in 1932, Arbuckle was back in films making six shorts for Vitagraph Studios.  A few of them had earlier film appearances of some guy named Shemp.  After the six shorts were made, Arbuckle signed a feature film contract at Warner Brothers and then died in his sleep of a heart attack that night, age 46.  A very sad end.  I really wish we could have seen Arbuckle be independent and do his thing in the twenties, but as it stands, he was number two behind Chaplin in the mid to late teens.  For further viewing, I recommend the 1914 Sennett short he made with Chaplin called THE ROUNDERS and one of the many films he did with Mabel Normand, 1915's FATTY AND MABEL ADRIFT.

9/10
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