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Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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Re: Cover Songs
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 10:51:47 AM »
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  • Mack the Knife – Bobby Darin

    Oh the shark, Babe, has such teeth, dear
    And it shows them pearly white
    Just a jack knife has old MacHeath, Babe
    And he keeps it outasight

    Ya know when that shark bites with its teeth, Babe
    Scarlet billows start to spread
    Fancy gloves, though, wears old MacHeath, Babe
    So there’s never, never a trace of red

    Now on the sidewalk, oooh, Sunday morning, uh-huh
    Lies a body just oozing life
    And someone’s sneaking ‘round the corner
    Could that someone be Mack the Knife

    There’s a tugboat down by the river, don’tcha know
    Where a cement bag’s justa drooping on down
    Oh, that cement is just, its there for the weight, dear
    Five’ll get ya ten Ole Macky’s back in town

    Now, d’ja hear ‘bout Louie Miller, he disappeared, Babe
    After drawing out all his hard earned cash
    And now MacHeath spends just like a sailor
    Could it be our boy’s done something rash

    Now, Jenny Diver, yeah, Sukey Tawdry
    Oh, Miss Lottie Lenya and Ole Lucy Brown
    Oh, the line forms on the right, Babe
    Now that Macky’s back in town

    I said Jenny Diver, woah, Sukey Tawdry
    Look out to Miss Lottie Lenya, and Ole Lucy Brown
    Yes, that line forms on the right, Babe
    Now that Macky’s … … back in town

    Look out Ole Macky’s back

    This tune took a considerable amount of research to pin down. Pilsner MUST be familiar with it, and I’m sure he’ll have many elucidating comments about it. I’ve included it in the “cover songs” section, as Bobby did not come up with this song on his own. As the lyrics suggest, there is a much deeper story going on. This is my only nitpick, because in order to really appreciate this tune, the story surrounding the song must be told. This is a song from the 1928 play titled “The Threepenny Opera” written by Bertolt Brecht in Germany. The opening song, “Die Moritat von Mackie Messer” was adapted by Louis Armstrong into “Mack the Knife” and later gave Bobby Darin his only number one pop single. “The Threepenny Opera” was itself an adaptation of another satire written in 1728 titled “The Beggar’s Opera” by John Gay. The central character in both works is MacHeath, who is an elegant highwayman in Gay’s work, and a violent criminal in Brecht’s work who sees himself as a businessman. The references to the men and women in the Armstrong/Darin songs are from the Threepenny Opera. MacHeath marries Polly Peachum which displeases her father, Jonathan, who controls the beggars of London, and he attempts to get MacHeath hanged. The attempt is complicated by the fact that MacHeath is friends with Tiger Brown, the Chief of Police. Eventually Peachum gets MacHeath to the gallows, but the Queen issues a pardon at the last minute.
    The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 03:31:28 PM »
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  • I can't add much to that, Giff, you really did your homework there. I, for one, can't hear "Mack The Knife" without thinking of the great Ernie Kovacs, who used the original German version to accompany the blackout comedy sketches on his 1950's TV show. In the surreal Kovacs manner, he'd always have an oscilloscope trace of the music running along the bottom of the screen. Unfortunately, I've only got that recording on "The Best of Ernie Kovacs" DVD set, and I have no way to rip it to the MP3 format. Or maybe I do, but I'm too technically dense to figure it out (as usual).

    I'll at least provide a link to the DVD at amazon.com, as I highly recommend it to any fans of classic comedy, and there are at least a few people like that around here:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000056B07/qid=1145305970/sr=1-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1536137-4325700?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

    Aside from the familiar Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra, and Bobby Darin recordings, the song has been covered by a remarkable range of artists, everyone from Ella Fitzgerald to the Doors. That latter, I've never heard— and I don't want to, either. I wouldn't inflict anything by the Doors on an unsuspecting and innocent audience, I'm just not that sadistic.

     [yuck]

    I'd actually rather hear Wayne Newton's rendition (yes, he covered it, too). Love him or hate him, Wayne Newton can stay on pitch and knows what key he's singing in, which is more than you can say for Jim Morrison.

    Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 12:10:22 AM »
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  • The Doors version of Mack the Knife ... that one I haven't heard. I like what Denis Leary said about the Doors:



    [attachment deleted by admin]
    The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #28 on: April 18, 2006, 05:31:34 AM »
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  • The Doors version of Mack the Knife ... that one I haven't heard. I like what Denis Leary said about the Doors:


    That about covers the subject, Giff.

    [pound]

    The lesson seems to be, never sing while drunk. Or, never post anything to message boards while drunk.

    Hi there, Shemoeley...

     ;D

    The worst drunken musical performance I ever saw was one by Ray Davies and the Kinks. This was in 1978, and it was one of the first live concerts I ever went to. That guy was so thoroughly plastered, he was swigging either vodka or gin from a bottle, right onstage... and joking about it.

     ::)

    The rest of the group was a little less fried-to-the-gills than the leader, but it didn't help much.

    Too bad— because at least in the studio, the Kinks were a great band and Mr. Davies is a fine (and often overlooked) rock songwriter.

    [shrug]

    Only W.C. Fields could get away with performing with a few belts under his belt... maybe because Shemp the bartender knew just how to mix his drinks.

     8)


    Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #29 on: April 18, 2006, 08:30:33 AM »
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  • However ... singing while drunk is often practiced. In fact, it is probably a preferred passtime by drunk people. POSTING while drunk is harder to detect, but I have noticed a few items to watch for. First, the poster will miss an [obvious typing error. Second, the poster will missspell a word and not pick-up on it. Third, (and most damning), the poster will present a sentence that makes no cohesive sense in the context and blender of what was presented as the topic of choice and marriage and wolf breath.
    The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.

    Offline shemps#1

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #30 on: April 18, 2006, 08:32:13 AM »
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  • I feel obligated to defend the Doors here. Morrison was one of the greatest, most original and demented (I mean that as a compliment) American lyricists of all time, and whether he could "stay in key" or not doesn't matter. His voice was perfectly suited for the hard, edgy music the Doors were doing. Besides, anyone with the balls to give Ed Sullivan the proverbial middle finger on live national television during Sullivan's peak is alright by me.

    Morrison will be remembered long after those overrated hack crooners like Darin, Sinatra, and Newton are long forgotten. Had Morrison not OD'd I doubt he would have spent his middle-aged and beyond years in Vegas singing in front of a bunch of post-menopausal women that throw their granny panties at the stage.

    Speaking of overrated hacks...

    Denis Leary is nothing but a talentless fuck who completely stole Bill Hicks' entire act and persona. I so wish he was a fucking Yankees fan, the Red Sox deserve so much better than that piece of shit loser.
    "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #31 on: April 18, 2006, 12:29:28 PM »
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  • No, no... there's no defense for the Doors. That idiotic, worthless crap! I'll be the first to admit that other than hip-hop, 60's rock is my least favorite form of music, and with the exception of Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, some of the Beatles and some of Led Zeppelin, I never listen to it. In fact, I wish I'd never had to listen to it when I was growing up.

    Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that you have absolute pitch (which I do). If someone is singing or playing off-key, it's actually
    painful to have to hear it! There are certain sounds that can drive me right out of the room, and an off-key singer is right at the top of the list.

    I have a recording that's so horrible in that sense, that it's actually funny... Bette Davis trying to sing. She's got a full, professional orchestra and chorus behind her, but she's also got such a tin ear that none of that helps, and it's an atrocity. It's so remarkably bad that I'm going to have to dig it out of my files and post it in Pilsner's Picks as a special feature.

    The only thing I can compare it to is a film clip that I once saw of the Doors performing on some TV show. Jim Morrison is obviously plastered to the gills, and he stumbles through a song (literally), messing up the lyrics that he wrote himself because he's too drunk to remember them.

    Where the artistic merit or entertainment value is in that, I defy anyone to say.

     [thumbsdown]


    Offline FineBari3

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #32 on: April 18, 2006, 12:40:18 PM »
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  • Ahhhh...Robert Walden Cassotto! May you rest in piece, Bobby!  (One of my obsessions other than the Stooges).

    If you only know Bobby Darin from Mack the Knife, PLEASE check out any recorded performance you can. There is a great documentary that runs on PBS sometimes and also you can buy it called "Beyond The Song" and a wonderful DVD called "Mack is Back", which was his last NBC special just weeks before he died at age 37.

    Bobby was a character, a MENSA member, and a drummer before anything else. He was a genius in the literal sense with a very high IQ.

    Pils, got any BD at the Copacabana?????
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    "Moe is their leader." -Homer Simpson

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #33 on: April 18, 2006, 02:07:12 PM »
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  • I've got "Mack the Knife" and a few other Darin tracks, MJ, but I try to stay away from posting any music that might still be under copyright, for obvious reasons (hello, there RIAA).

     :police:

    It's an old, old story, but I'll tell it again: I used to have my whole music library online 24/7 for file-sharing, but when the RIAA and the federal courts cracked down on that four years ago, I shut it down. In fact, that's how Pilsner's Picks got started, because I wanted to keep the results of a lifetime of collecting available to anyone who wanted it, but I didn't want to be sued. That was when I floated the Picks concept to Rob, and he really liked the idea.

    However, the reason that the Picks are so heavy on 20's-30's-40's material is that most of it's in the public domain by now. Anything that isn't is probably covered under the Fair Use rule; either that, or I'm (hopefully) too much of a small fry for the legal sharks to bother with.

    You'd be surprised at what's still copyrighted: "Happy Birthday," for example. Anyone would think that that's a "traditional" tune, but some music publishing company (I forget which) actually owns the rights to it. Strictly speaking, they should get a penny or two any time anyone sings the song. If they could somehow enforce that and collect, they'd be the richest people on the planet!

    Offline shemps#1

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #34 on: April 18, 2006, 02:19:35 PM »
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  • I'm sure somebody put a gun to your head and forced you to listen to 60's rock, Pils. Please, you could have turned off the radio or left the area in which it was played.

    Mid 60's-early 70's was when some of the best rock music was made. Beatles, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Stones, Doors, etc. Was there shit music in that time period? Definately, there's shit music in every time period. How anyone can listen to those talentless crooners or most anything from the mid-70's onward and tell me the Doors were worse I'll never understand.

    Rock music is about kicking ass and taking names, not having perfect pitch. If you can't see that then you shouldn't listen to it at all.

    I'd much rather listen to Morrison stagger through a song then listen to the vast majority of that antiquated shit you enjoy, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    PS: Darin sucks.
    "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #35 on: April 18, 2006, 02:33:38 PM »
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  • I'm sure somebody put a gun to your head and forced you to listen to 60's rock, Pils. Please, you could have turned off the radio or left the area in which it was played.


    Not if you're a passenger on a long car trip and that's what the driver wants to listen to... something that happened to me fairly often in my younger days.

    Quote

    Mid 60's-early 70's was when some of the best rock music was made. Beatles, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Stones, Doors, etc. Was there shit music in that time period? Definately, there's shit music in every time period. How anyone can listen to those talentless crooners or most anything from the mid-70's onward and tell me the Doors were worse I'll never understand.

    Rock music is about kicking ass and taking names, not having perfect pitch. If you can't see that then you shouldn't listen to it at all.

    I'd much rather listen to Morrison stagger through a song then listen to the vast majority of that antiquated shit you enjoy, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.


    Well, as the old saying goes, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. But, you don't even like washboard bands?

    Long live Clarence Williams, Washboard Sam, and the Hoosier Hot Shots, that's what I say! One good side by any of them is worth a ton of rock records, at least to me.

     ;)

    Offline shemps#1

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #36 on: April 18, 2006, 03:00:54 PM »
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  • The only "instruments" that bring visions of Ned Beatty getting ass-raped by a hillbilly into my mind faster than the washboard are the jug and the banjo.
    "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #37 on: April 18, 2006, 03:05:00 PM »
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  • Oy vayz mir... well, at least we both despise George Steinbrenner and the Yankees.

     [duck]

    Offline Bangsmith

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #38 on: April 18, 2006, 03:50:09 PM »
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  • Not if you're a passenger on a long car trip and that's what the driver wants to listen to... something that happened to me fairly often in my younger days.

    Well, as the old saying goes, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. But, you don't even like washboard bands?

    Long live Clarence Williams, Washboard Sam, and the Hoosier Hot Shots, that's what I say! One good side by any of them is worth a ton of rock records, at least to me.

     ;)
    The only "instruments" that bring visions of Ned Beatty getting ass-raped by a hillbilly into my mind faster than the washboard are the jug and the banjo.
    [soapbox] I actually like that old blues stuff, but I agree that washboards and jugs don't make good instruments. The jug bands were the sissy end of Blues. Country and urban pre-war blues are a bit antiquated now, but, pre-British Invasion, it's all there was that challenged authority. I sit firmly on the Blues end of the Blues/Jazz divide that existed then, as the Blues were made under circumstances that would break any struggling musician's heart nowadays. Leadbelly, Sonny Boy Williamson 2, Howlin' Wolf, Bukka White and Son House were rebels in their time, and most of them didn't get going until middle-age (except for Robert Johnson, Charley Patton and a handful of others)! Rock definitely is an improvement on the Blues, at least since 1964, anyway. I'm a Punker first, but I couldn't give less than a shit what year a song was made: Blues, Garage Rock, Psychedelic/Prog/Heavy Metal, and Hardcore/Punk Rock were each the best in their times, in that order!! By the way, The Doors were one of the best, and influenced or drew upon all of the above categories!
    P.S. Long live Robert Fripp and King Crimson!! [nuts] [nuts]
    If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do "suck seed"!!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #39 on: April 18, 2006, 04:02:44 PM »
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  • I hardly ever dismiss anyone's opinion out-of-hand, but in your case, Bangsmith, I will.

    To say that rock was an "improvement" on the blues— that's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen on this board (including Islipp's and some other half-wits whose names I forget). I shouldn't even dignify it with a reply, except that I just did.

     >:(




    Offline Bangsmith

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #40 on: April 18, 2006, 04:27:36 PM »
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  • We all have our opinions. Someone might think that rap is better than funk. If you can't tell by my posting, I'm a big Blues fan. I have about as many Blues albums as rock ones. Rock isn't THAT much better, but the buying public seems to think it is. Even black people don't listen to it much anymore. It is strange for me to defend my comments on the matter, since I love the blues so much, even stranger how an OPINION could be "ignorant" when there are no hard facts in the matter, and even stranger to be smited for it!!! By the way, you made a typo in that smite!!!!!!!!!
    P.S. When I said "in that order", I meant chronologically, not talent-wise. When I said "Improvement", I was referring to the extra influences not heard in straight blues. Rock's best quality IS that it drew upon the blues!!!
    If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do "suck seed"!!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #41 on: April 18, 2006, 04:51:52 PM »
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  • Oh, there are hard facts in the matter. Are you going to tell me that some teenage garage band is "equivalent" to a Beethoven piano sonata? Or to Fats Waller or Charles Ives, George Gershwin, Cole Porter, Louis Armstrong, Harold Arlen, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Henry Red Allen, or Cecil Taylor?

    Nawww, I ain't buyin' any... take that load someplace else.

    Oh, and that typo is because I've got a disabled right arm. I usually have to type anything about three times to get it right. Thanks for reminding me.

    Twerp.

    [splat]





    Offline Bangsmith

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #42 on: April 18, 2006, 05:04:31 PM »
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  • Maybe not a "Teenage" garage band, but a well-seasoned garage band, maybe. Beethoven was probably horrible when he started writing. I don't like Jazz, so I can't comment on those others, as my opinion, like yours, would be too biased. I do like blues, and most of them improved with age, just as the Jazz musicians, Classical composers, AND rock stars. I do like Beethoven, by the way!
    P.S. I can't "remind" you of something I knew nothing about.
    If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do "suck seed"!!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #43 on: April 18, 2006, 05:39:04 PM »
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  • Maybe not a "Teenage" garage band, but a well-seasoned garage band, maybe. Beethoven was probably horrible when he started writing. I don't like Jazz, so I can't comment on those others, as my opinion, like yours, would be too biased. I do like blues, and most of them improved with age, just as the Jazz musicians, Classical composers, AND rock stars. I do like Beethoven, by the way!
    P.S. I can't "remind" you of something I knew nothing about.

    I'm "too biased," all right, against morons. How blues or any other music can "improve with age" is beyond me, since the music was either good when it was made, or it wasn't. How old it is has nothing to do with how good it is, just as with comedy. Are the Stooges also old and out of date, or are you really that unperceptive?

    I'll explain this so even you can understand it (thanks, Moe): I just recently watched the ten Buster Keaton Columbia shorts, most of them for the first time. Since I'd never seen all but two them before, they were new to me, and hilarious.

    If that's not the case, and I shouldn't have laughed because they're "old," and can be "improved on," please tell me why.

    Obviously, that new Pink Panther film with Steve Martin is an improvement over anything Peter Sellers ever did, right?

     [doh]


    Offline JazzBill

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #44 on: April 18, 2006, 07:14:04 PM »
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  • Speaking of "Cover Songs" (which no one seems to be doing). I can think of a song that has been covered by just about every Jazz and Big Band in the 20th Century. That would be Count Basie's One O'Clock Jump. I believe I have about 10 different versions of that song by different people.For anyone who thinks Jazz or Big Bands got better with time , you need to get a copy of Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall 1938. His cover of One O' Clock Jump, with Gene Kruppa on drums on Harry James on the horn is second to none ( Even Basie's, in my opinion).
    "When in Chicago call Stockyards 1234, Ask for Ruby".

    Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #45 on: April 18, 2006, 11:20:20 PM »
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  • Quote
    Speaking of "Cover Songs" (which no one seems to be doing).


    Jazzbill ... have you been READING the posts that have been made hear-in? We have dwelled on nothing else! WAKE-UP ! ... Just look at the last round of "Mack the Knife" entries to confirm this excellence in cover songness ....
    The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #46 on: April 19, 2006, 01:10:37 AM »
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  • Speaking of "Cover Songs" (which no one seems to be doing). I can think of a song that has been covered by just about every Jazz and Big Band in the 20th Century. That would be Count Basie's One O'Clock Jump. I believe I have about 10 different versions of that song by different people.For anyone who thinks Jazz or Big Bands got better with time , you need to get a copy of Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall 1938. His cover of One O' Clock Jump, with Gene Kruppa on drums on Harry James on the horn is second to none ( Even Basie's, in my opinion).

    When it comes to most-covered jazz tunes, I'd submit "St. Louis Blues," "Tiger Rag" and "The Sheik of Araby" and "I Got Rhythm" as the top contenders. The latter probably wins, since Gershwin's original chord changes have been used as the basis for hundreds of jazz numbers that have different titles. The use of its chord structure became so common by the 1940's that jazz musicians used the term "Rhythm changes" as shorthand for anything based on that chord pattern.

    I've been thinking about doing a Picks segment consisting of all one composition, covered by a dozen or so different people. Maybe it's too weird an idea to fly, though...

    I'll take suggestions as to whether I should do this or not, since I can't decide.

     ???

    Offline Giff me dat fill-em!

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #47 on: April 19, 2006, 04:19:27 AM »
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  • A dozen-or-so versions of "I've Got Rhythm" ... it seems worth the effort to me, if only to verify that all twelve can spell "Rhythm" correctly.
    The tacks won't come out! Well, they went in ... maybe they're income tacks.

    Offline Bangsmith

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #48 on: April 19, 2006, 10:23:24 AM »
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  • To Pilsner: You may have misunderstood my point. I started out DEFENDING your taste in music(washboards and jugs aside)!! I used one off-color example of one form of music(rock) that I thought was slightly better than another(blues). Obviously, not everything improves with age. I think Country Music sucks compared to long ago! The Three Stooges cannot be improved upon, which is why we are both here! I recently bought the Buster Keaton set, and I thought it was hilarious! As for me, though, I'd like to think that I'm better at what I do now than when I started!! As for this topic, most cover songs suck!
    If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do "suck seed"!!

    Offline JazzBill

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    Re: Cover Songs
    « Reply #49 on: April 19, 2006, 03:41:25 PM »
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  • Jazzbill ... have you been READING the posts that have been made hear-in? We have dwelled on nothing else! WAKE-UP ! ... Just look at the last round of "Mack the Knife" entries to confirm this excellence in cover songness ....
    I was joking about the bickering,the posts themselves have been interesting. Now, back to business.
    A song that I have always considered a true Rock Classic , a kick your ass and stomp your head type song is Whole Lotta Love by Led Zeppelin. Well, a couple of years ago I bought a CD called "Blues Masters Sampler ". On it was a song sung by Muddy Waters and written by Willie Dixon that sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. I looked at the name and it was called " You Need Love ".Well it finally hit me that it was the original "Whole Lotta Love". I dug out my old  Led Zeppilin LP to see who got credit for writing it and it was listed as Page, Plant , J.P. Jones and  Bonham.
    So even a Rock Classic like Whole Lotta Love was lifted from R.& B. 
    "When in Chicago call Stockyards 1234, Ask for Ruby".

     


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