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Author Topic: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)  (Read 2081 times)

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Offline metaldams

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Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
« on: December 15, 2016, 07:12:59 PM »
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  • http://www.threestooges.net/filmography/episode/189
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053243/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAl4Chqn08w

    Watch SAPPY BULL FIGHTERS in the link above

          We've come to end of the shorts with SAPPY BULL FIGHTERS, a remake of WHAT'S THE MATADOR.  Like most of these remakes, I have very little to say.  The bottom line is this is mostly the same film as MATADOR, but with a lesser third Stooge and lesser supporting cast.  Strange how Besser can pull off Curly routines just fine in FRAIDY CAT but here seems so forced.  The haunting a house routine, for example, it's almost as if he's trying to be funny, with that smirk on his face and all, while Curly delivers the line in like he's being serious.  Perhaps Jules White directed Besser that way, who knows?  Either way, the results are not effective. There's also a part in the beginning where the beginnings of a Stooge slapstick brouhaha is happening, and as soonas Moe is about to go postal on Besser, Besser simply tells Moe to stop and they focus on the briefcase.  This wussifying of Moe is the absolute worst thing about the Besser era, the old Moe would have let Besser have it.  Hey, at least Greta is pretty, but really, the original short is better and there's no reason to watch this outside of historical interest.  Absolutely nothing new, a sad way to end the 190.

          Man, I'm kind of bummed, I'm going to miss this.  We do have six Derita features and some Besser solos left, and whatever Paul Pain does, I hope you guys stick around (I will), as I know he'll do something good. Still, these 190 shorts are the meat of why we're Stooge fans, and it's been a crazy ride.  The Derita features should be better to review than most of these remakes lately.  I noticed when doing The Marx Brothers and PARDON US from Laurel and Hardy, features have more to review and are easier to talk about for the most part.  Should be a fun six weeks, but still, can't believe we're done with the 190.  Can't fucking believe it.  Man!

    4/10

    Offline Paul Pain

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 05:35:04 AM »
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  • In honor of this week's recycle bin dreck, I am recycling one of ShempDiesel's and one of my reviews.

    Well, we're almost to the end of the line--and what a ride it has been. I'm going to try & not waste too much time on this one. The thing I found most egregious about this short is that we have a living, breathing 3rd stooge to work with & there are still many instances where we can hear and see Shemp.

    I guess no one working on these shorts at the time, truly did give a damn anymore...

    0 out of 10 pokes...

    We have to give a little credit... the _____ scene was good.  The rest is pretty much... worthless.  Total lack of effort from all involved in this.

    This short can... BURN IN HELLTM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2/10 [poke]
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    Offline Shemp_Diesel

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 12:53:58 PM »
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  • Wow, the end of the line for the Columbia short subjects. I think I said this back in the Pies and Guys thread--this was probably the worst stretch of Besser shorts. It's really a bummer that the 190 had to end with this bullshit, instead of a Oil's Well--maybe then, Moe and Larry could have gone out on a sort of high note. But where does wishing get one anyway.

    But--I will say--as far as Besser goes, this one is not quite as putrid as last week's shitfest, or even a Sweet and Hot. I'm struggling to say something "positive" about this short.

    Bon voyage, Moe & Larry. Bring on Curly-Joe already...

    3 out of 10 pokes...

    Now you ask me if I believe a man can become a wolf. Well, if you mean can he take on the physical characteristics of an animal, no, it's fantastic. However, I do believe that most anything can happen to a man in his own mind.

    Offline Shemp_Diesel

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 12:55:59 PM »
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  • I almost forgot to ask, Metal, when we get to the "Derita" features, will Kook's Tour be included?
    Now you ask me if I believe a man can become a wolf. Well, if you mean can he take on the physical characteristics of an animal, no, it's fantastic. However, I do believe that most anything can happen to a man in his own mind.

    Offline metaldams

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 01:07:48 PM »
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  • I almost forgot to ask, Metal, when we get to the "Derita" features, will Kook's Tour be included?

    No.  An unfinished project that's dreadful to watch and not really a feature.  Snow White is even controversial in my eyes as a true Stooge film, but I'll do that due to demand and billing.  Of course, Paul can do Kook's Tour if he wants, I'll participate.

    Offline Paul Pain

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 07:26:47 AM »
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  • No.  An unfinished project that's dreadful to watch and not really a feature.  Snow White is even controversial in my eyes as a true Stooge film, but I'll do that due to demand and billing.  Of course, Paul can do Kook's Tour if he wants, I'll participate.

    If it's on YouTube, then it can go on the agenda!
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    Offline Percy Pomeroy

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 07:55:06 AM »
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  • The opening music is very good. La Cucaracha transitioning over to Three Blind Mice with a tempo that's very 1950ish. Unfortunately, this short can't live up to that rousing start. The first nine minutes aren't bad if viewed nostalgically. They incorporated two of my favorite bits into one: the hiding under the jealous husband's bed and the surprise discovery by a roving hand. Also, the "a man, two men, three men" lines always crack me up. To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy: you just may be a wacko...if you always find that funny.

    Greta Thyssen kills me is this short. The dress she wears in the opening scene is killer. As Larry Fine would say, Hubba, Hubba, Hubba! Even better, when she starts peeling off that silky dress down to her undies. Hose me down! Also love that sexy black dress she gets into with the line running down the stockings. The Stooges' shorts have had some real hot women over the years but Greta is my favorite. Russ Meyer should have cast her in his movies.

    I thought I saw this coming. When the suitcases get mixed up, how did the Stooge's not take this as a intentional "leave behind" because Greta was smitten with them?

    Once they get to the bullring, the rest of the short sucks. Shit, even Greta knew it, maybe that's why she dressed like a widow. Joe's lip synching to Curly's dog bark was awkward and weird. The shots of the Stooges were obviously taken indoors. Frankly, even in the original short, this scene was never a favorite of mine. Not funny and goes on too long.

    5/10

    Okay, so we come to the end of the Joe era. To quote Dick Dietrick (host of Nightstand, the funniest and most underrated TV show of the 1990s) people, what have we learned here?

    One of my favorite Joe moments was In Muscle Up a Little Closer when Elmo is choking Joe. This was a projection my of anger towards any short with Joe in it. Now, in retrospect, as an adult and after viewing all of the Joe episodes, I can see that my anger was misplaced. It's about the Stooges getting old, the writers running out of ideas, and the studio being cheap. Now, whenever Joe's face appears my screen, I will not have the same reaction that the Delta House boys did when prospective pledge Kent Dorfman's mug was projected on their frat house wall.  Joe, buddy, I misjudged you. You were a gamer and the consummate pro.

    Offline Lefty

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 10:31:01 AM »
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  • "Greta neveh looked betta."  Maybe the big shots wanted to have a hot babe to distract from the short itself.  The scene of "... have a man in here -- two men -- three men" is funny, and off-hand I do not recall any other scene in which Curly, Shemp, and Joe all enacted.  Anyone who has seen this short and not "What's the Matador?" would have no idea how important Peedro Alverez was in the original.

    A couple of things really dragged Sappy Bullfighters down:

    1.  George Lewis was from Mexico; Harry Burns (Jose in "What's the Matador?") was from Philadelphia.  Burns sounded more like a Mexican than Lewis did.  "I shall kill them" instead of "I weel keel them!"

    B.  Besides the piped-in "wooing" of Curly while Joe was riding the bull, that bit of showing a close-up of Joe pretending to be riding a bucking bull was, well, he's in the bull too.

    Offline Percy Pomeroy

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 10:53:28 AM »
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  • 1.  George Lewis was from Mexico; Harry Burns (Jose in "What's the Matador?") was from Philadelphia.  Burns sounded more like a Mexican than Lewis did.  "I shall kill them" instead of "I weel keel them!"


    Yes, besides more authentic, much more menacing to have someone shout "I will keel them" at you.

    Offline metaldams

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #9 on: December 18, 2016, 07:01:54 AM »
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  • Okay, so we come to the end of the Joe era. To quote Dick Dietrick (host of Nightstand, the funniest and most underrated TV show of the 1990s) people, what have we learned here?

    One of my favorite Joe moments was In Muscle Up a Little Closer when Elmo is choking Joe. This was a projection my of anger towards any short with Joe in it. Now, in retrospect, as an adult and after viewing all of the Joe episodes, I can see that my anger was misplaced. It's about the Stooges getting old, the writers running out of ideas, and the studio being cheap. Now, whenever Joe's face appears my screen, I will not have the same reaction that the Delta House boys did when prospective pledge Kent Dorfman's mug was projected on their frat house wall.  Joe, buddy, I misjudged you. You were a gamer and the consummate pro.

          Very good points.  I agree for the most part, Joe gets too much of the blame when other factors, such as age, budgets, and writing get factored in.

          I think one of the biggest tragedies of the Shemp recycle era is that with so relatively little new footage over a few year period, the impact of the boys aging hits us in the Besser era harder than it would if we had a lot of footage those final few Shemp years.  There is a major softening of Moe in the Besser era, something I'm going to look for in the Derita features, which I haven't watched in years.  A less foreceful Moe really screws with the team dynamic.


    Offline Desmond Of The Outer Sanctorum

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 09:58:02 AM »
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  • Going out with a whimper rather than a bang...

    This short -- like the Besser era in general, and like Joe himself -- just makes for too easy of a punching bag. But I'm not going to approach it that way.

    Sure, this is an inferior remake of a short from the classic Curly era. The initial plot setup is lame and uninspired, both in writing and performance. Greta, whatever her physical attributes, gives a dull and flat performance. The shots of Joe "riding the bull" -- with a completely stationary background -- may be single the worst thing ever to happen in a Stooges short. We have Curly (or a dummy/stuntman for him) visible in various reused footage, and he's even briefly audible going "woo-woo-woo." The whole bullfighting segment, as someone has pointed out, wasn't that great to begin with, and it's certainly not improved upon here. Even the title is lame.

    That said, Joe still manages to have some good moments, including:
    "I'll go!"
    "There isn't room in there for the both of us."
    "Squeak squeak."

    He also takes some abuse:
    - gets eggs on face
    - gets hit on head with suitcase
    - gets an eyepoke (although he doesn't really act like this hurts)
    - gets knocked on the head (along with Larry)
    - gets hit on head with own hat
    - gets hit on head with rock
    - gets darts in the behind
    - hits head on bar while being carried away

    (He also does his one and only Stooges "bark" here, but someone earlier said this was lip-synched from Curly's. I wouldn't know.)

    What Joe often gets criticized for, at least here, is not saying certain lines (especially the "haunt a house" exchange) the way Curly did. But this raises the question: Why would he say them the same way? He wasn't a Curly imitator; he was an original character (albeit one that had a hard time fitting in with the Stooges). Some fans say he "ruined" the old Curly lines; I say he often made them funny in a different way. I also say that he wouldn't be criticized that much about how he handled those lines if we hadn't heard Curly saying them first.

    Take that "haunt a house" exchange. Curly was always portrayed a loony character who simply said and did loony things; his straight-faced, rapid-fire delivery of these lines was funny, and it fit his persona. Joe -- at least in this short -- is portrayed as a wise-cracker who enjoys getting under Moe's skin; his delivery of these lines, while it may not be quite as funny as Curly's, fits that persona. This is underscored by the way Larry busts up along with him afterwards, like one boy high-fiving the other for sassing the teacher. Joe doesn't "ruin" the lines; he just makes them fit his own character. The same is true of "Well, turn around -- I'll kiss her behind your back."

    I have to say, when Joe does his own rendition of "I can't see! I can't see!" (with a nudge and a wink, differently from Larry) and then does the hand-in-Moe's-face bit ("oo-oo-oo-oo!!"), I feel like I'm seeing him -- however briefly -- being a valid part of some authentic Stooges chemistry. But then he does a version of "Oh, look!" that doesn't quite work (the "Oh, look!" should be what actually interrupts Moe's abuse, but it isn't) and the moment's gone... and I'm left wishing I could have seen more like it.

    "Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day." -- Samuel Goldwyn

    Many would rather believe a lie because truth demands a response.

    Offline Percy Pomeroy

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #11 on: December 19, 2016, 08:37:11 PM »
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  • I think one of the biggest tragedies of the Shemp recycle era is that with so relatively little new footage over a few year period, the impact of the boys aging hits us in the Besser era harder than it would if we had a lot of footage those final few Shemp years.


    This piqued my interest enough to get me checking. If you say that Goof on the Roof was the last to score a 10, then between it and the start of the Bessers, there were 18 (22 if you count the fake Shemps) shorts released. Of the remaining, only a couple received mostly positive reviews and, of course, they contained all original material. That's three years: 1954-56.

    Offline Curly Van Dyke

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #12 on: December 21, 2016, 01:29:59 PM »
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  • Not the worst Stooge short,but right up there with  Horsing Around,Fifi Blows her Top and Sweet and Hot.
    However,Greta Thyssen is Major HUBBA HUBBA!!!!!!!

    Offline Kopfy2013

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 05:26:45 PM »
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  • I give this a 3. This brings back Curly memories and Greta is worth that much.
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    Metaldams: Thank you very much for taking us on this journey. I really appreciate it!   :laugh:  [pie]
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    Offline metaldams

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
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  • Metaldams: Thank you very much for taking us on this journey. I really appreciate it!   :laugh:  [pie]

    You're welcome, it's been a blast.  Still got Derita features, though!

    Offline Paul Pain

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 03:37:06 PM »
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  • Metaldams: Thank you very much for taking us on this journey. I really appreciate it!   :laugh:  [pie]

    A 1328 day journey, to be specific!
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    Offline Lefty

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 10:40:30 AM »
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  • On this 58th anniversary of the release of this short, the last of them, I can state that I did something last Sunday night that I had never done before, and only because Monday was a holiday.  I normally watch three episodes of the Stooges on Sunday evening, but last week I watched six, just to complete the cycle.  Yes, I am still feeling woozy about having watched six straight Joe shorts at one sitting (or reclining).  But then, it sure beats watching the Phillies do whatever it is they do.   [pie]

    Offline Woe-ee-Woe-Woe80

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    Re: Sappy Bull Fighters (1959)
    « Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 05:14:35 PM »
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  • One of my least favorite Besser shorts, it's not as horrible as "Horsing Around", "Triple Crossed" and "Sweet And Hot" but it does come close, I've thought Joe Besser's "I've got my eyes closed" line was horrible and unfunny, if it was done by Larry, Curly or Shemp it would've been hilarious but Besser totally ruined that line, I also thought it was lame seeing Besser being put in Curly situations because he is no match for Curly or Shemp, Moe & Larry also don't seem to have much energy in this short either.

    Overall I give this short a 4/10