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AmalgamatedMoron

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2009, 04:11:53 PM »
Hey Jim,

Just out of pure curiosity, what are some of your favorite bands?  This conversation has made me wonder.  I'm not aware of where your actual tastes lie.  Although we certainly know it's not "Arena Rock".  ;D

Paul

Offline shemps#1

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2009, 04:34:37 PM »
Jim,

I didn't ask you to amend your "Music That Sucks" threads.  I'm just offering my own opinion.  You no doubt have strong feelings about their music, that's fine by me.  While I understand that some don't care for them , I have to admit that I don't understand why some feel so strongly about it.  But hey, whatever, so be it.  To each his own I suppose.  I wasn't trying to piss you off, but apparently I succeeded nonetheless.  Sorry. 
 
As you said:

"NOTE: Music That Sucks is the correct opinion of the author. If your own opinion differs, what's up wit' that?"

So be it my Resident Crank.


Paul,

You are misconstruing my strong verbiage for being "pissed off" and perhaps that's where we have crossed wires in the past. Rest assured that is not all the case. That's just "how I roll" as the kids are prone to say. You couldn't possibly piss me off in debating your opinions on Journey. It did however seem as though you were offended by my saying "Journey sucks" and should thus only say "it's not my taste". Usually whenever anyone says "so and so sucks" they are stating that as their opinion and not as fact. There are people who are going to disagree with me, and you, and both of us when I agree on a band/artist. The suggestion that I "say it's not my taste" is not really in spirit of MTS....otherwise it would MTINMT (which would be rather dull).

When two men who are considered guitar legends and far more knowledgeable on the subject such as Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend both say that they themselves were wowed and take a back seat to Hendrix, that's really saying something. Jimi took the guitar and made it another body appendage, something no one else can claim. You really can't say someone like SRV was better technically when he basically emulated Jimi's entire style.

You've stated your opinion and I'll state mine: Eric Johnson isn't fit enough to choke on Jimi's drug-induced vomit. It's not that Johnson is horrible, it's just a testament to the greatness of Hendrix. I'm sure Johnson would agree with me.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

Offline metaldams

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2009, 04:51:37 PM »
Paul,

      Just curious, but do you play guitar?  Your taste in music is very much like all the guitar teachers I know. 

AmalgamatedMoron

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2009, 05:44:34 PM »
Paul,

      Just curious, but do you play guitar?  Your taste in music is very much like all the guitar teachers I know. 

Hey Doug,

I do.  But I'm certainly no teacher.

AmalgamatedMoron

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2009, 06:15:38 PM »
Paul,

You are misconstruing my strong verbiage for being "pissed off" and perhaps that's where we have crossed wires in the past. Rest assured that is not all the case. That's just "how I roll" as the kids are prone to say. You couldn't possibly piss me off in debating your opinions on Journey. It did however seem as though you were offended by my saying "Journey sucks" and should thus only say "it's not my taste". Usually whenever anyone says "so and so sucks" they are stating that as their opinion and not as fact. There are people who are going to disagree with me, and you, and both of us when I agree on a band/artist. The suggestion that I "say it's not my taste" is not really in spirit of MTS....otherwise it would MTINMT (which would be rather dull).

Fair enough.  I agree it would NOT be in the spirit of "Music That Sucks" if you simply called it "not my taste".  It also would not be in keeping with your "pull no punches" style, and your biting humor.  Carry on ole' chap.

When two men who are considered guitar legends and far more knowledgeable on the subject such as Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend both say that they themselves were wowed and take a back seat to Hendrix, that's really saying something. Jimi took the guitar and made it another body appendage, something no one else can claim.  You really can't say someone like SRV was better technically when he basically emulated Jimi's entire style.

I certainly don't discount the opinion of greats like Clapton and Townsend.  I'm not a huge fan of SRV, though I like him.  But I do believe his strongest proponents would disagree with the assessment of his playing.  But, I personally don't care.

You've stated your opinion and I'll state mine: Eric Johnson isn't fit enough to choke on Jimi's drug-induced vomit. It's not that Johnson is horrible, it's just a testament to the greatness of Hendrix. I'm sure Johnson would agree with me.

Lol!  Now that's cruel.  Did I mention I have a shrine built to Johnson's honor in my basement?  I also named my first born son after Johnson.  Just to vent my frustration over that gem, I'm going to bite my tongue and go in the backyard and kick the shit out of my neighbors dog.  >:D

The way I would look at it is to ask: Can they play each others material?  Johnson can, and does, play Hendrix's material live on the road.  And IMO, often better than Hendrix.  But can Hendrix play Johnson's material?  Perhaps some.  But by and large, I don't think so.  I can't picture Hendrix playing Cliffs Of Dover the way Johnson pays it live - with incredible speed and cleanliness. 

Not only is Johnson NOT "horrible".  He's one of the most talented and influential guitarist of our time.  He often garners praise from his fellow peers, such as: Eric Clapton, Steve Morse, Billy Gibbons, Johnny Winter, Jeff "Skunk" Baxter, and B.B. King.  He has also been voted "Best Rock Guitarist" many times over in numerous guitar publications.  In short, Eric Johnson is a guitar god.  I bow in humble adoration.  I am NOT worthy! 

Just to show I'm serious, here's my YouTube page - http://www.youtube.com/ejstratocaster - in honor of his greatness.  While the "Baron of Tone" would certainly acknowledge the greatness and influence of Hendrix--whom he greatly admires--I do believe he would stop short of saying that he "isn't fit enough to choke on Jimi's drug-induced vomit".

 :D


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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2009, 09:34:22 PM »
Now you're catching on, Paul!

I think the term "guitar god" gets passed around more often than Paris Hilton does. For instance, to me that clip of Spanish Castle Magic just comes off as a note for note copy technically and stylistically, with a bad vocalist accompanying him to boot. I am not terribly impressed. Let me put it this way: I am not doubting that Johnson can play guitar or even that he plays it well, however Jimi manipulated the guitar just as well as I manipulate my cock (I knew I could fit that line in!). There isn't anything in that clip that blows me away, and to be frank the bad vocals really detract from the guitar playing. Again, the "not fit enough to choke on Jimi's drug-induced vomit" line was not a knock on EJ's playing but a testament to how great Hendrix was.

Another thing about that cover is that while it was painfully obvious Johnson was covering a Hendrix tune Jimi had the ability to make covers his own creation as he did with All Along the Watchtower. Dylan himself said upon hearing the Hendrix version "that's his song now", and that's coming from a guy who has had legions of acts cover his songs. Sure, Jimi wasn't the only to do a Dylan song better than Dylan (although a songwriting genius Dylan was way below par as a vocalist and musician), but he was only one to receive such high praise from the man himself. As for whether or not Jimi could perform Johnson's music, any speculation is not only moot but odious since Jimi has been dead almost 40 years. Since you went down that road however I'll respectfully disagree.

I seem to remember you asking me about my favorite groups at some point so I'll come up with some sort of list.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

Offline metaldams

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2009, 10:01:36 PM »
Another thing about that cover is that while it was painfully obvious Johnson was covering a Hendrix tune Jimi had the ability to make covers his own creation as he did with All Along the Watchtower. Dylan himself said upon hearing the Hendrix version "that's his song now", and that's coming from a guy who has had legions of acts cover his songs. Sure, Jimi wasn't the only to do a Dylan song better than Dylan (although a songwriting genius Dylan was way below par as a vocalist and musician), but he was only one to receive such high praise from the man himself.

The praise even goes further than what you said, Jim.  When Dylan performs "All Along the Watchtower" live, he uses the Hendrix arrangement.


....and I'd like to see a list of bands you like too, Jim.  I know some of them, but I know the music you hate more.

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2009, 10:25:31 PM »
Nice vid!!!  I do believe one year "Weird" Al awarded this video best video with an exploding head!  Remember AlTV on MTV?  The good ol' days!!
Specto Caelum!

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2009, 01:15:10 AM »
The praise even goes further than what you said, Jim.  When Dylan performs "All Along the Watchtower" live, he uses the Hendrix arrangement.


....and I'd like to see a list of bands you like too, Jim.  I know some of them, but I know the music you hate more.


So not only did Dylan say "that song is his" but has even gone so far as to cover Jimi's version. If that isn't a testament to the power of Hendrix I don't know what is. There's a reason why Jimi will be remembered long after the Johnson's and Maumstein's of the world are dead and long forgotten.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

AmalgamatedMoron

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2009, 02:45:20 AM »
For instance, to me that clip of Spanish Castle Magic just comes off as a note for note copy technically and stylistically, with a bad vocalist accompanying him to boot. I am not terribly impressed. Let me put it this way: I am not doubting that Johnson can play guitar or even that he plays it well...There isn't anything in that clip that blows me away, and to be frank the bad vocals really detract from the guitar playing.

What???  Bad vocals?  I don't have a damn clue what you're talking about.  You may prefer to hear Hendrix sing the song, but to call Milligan's vocals "bad", is a poor judgment call.  I'm absolutely befuddled by that comment.  You apparently do not have an ear for music, and especially for singing.

To call Johnson's rendition a "note for note copy technically and stylistically" is to display gross ignorance of both Johnson and Hendrix.  For one, Johnson wrote that version himself.  And it's twice as long as Hendrix's recording.  So how can it be a "copy" of Hendrix?  I've heard live recordings of Hendrix playing SCM, and they are boring.  Most 2nd or 3rd year guitar students could play that solo crap he shits out.   

Johnson's rendition is a huge improvement over Hendrix's boring rendition.  On a technical level, with respect to that song, Hendrix can't touch Johnson.  EJ's super fast and clean scales, and arpeggios, blow Hendrix away.  Period.

As for whether or not Jimi could perform Johnson's music, any speculation is not only moot but odious since Jimi has been dead almost 40 years. Since you went down that road however I'll respectfully disagree.

So not only did Dylan say "that song is his" but has even gone so far as to cover Jimi's version. If that isn't a testament to the power of Hendrix I don't know what is. There's a reason why Jimi will be remembered long after the Johnson's and Maumstein's of the world are dead and long forgotten.

Wrong!  This only demonstrates your ignorance of the guitar, guitar musicians, who they admire, and why.  Hendrix had nowhere NEAR the technical skill that Johnson does.  On his best day he couldn't play most of what Johnson does.  You really need to listen to more of Johnson.  But, then again, if that rendition of SCM didn't give you an idea, then you're hopeless.   As far as Dylan's comment, I don't giva a damn what that idiot said. 

Guys like Eric Johnson and Malmsteen will last just as long, if not longer, than Hendrix; who may have played better--and certainly lived longer--if he would have gotten off those damn psychedelic drugs.  Fuck Hendrix and the sixties! 

BTW Jim, I wasn't joking when I said I named my son after Eric Johnson.  So don't bother banning me.  By the time you read this I will have already deleted my account.  As Gene Wilder said in Willy Wonka: "Good day sir"!

Offline shemps#1

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2009, 07:43:38 AM »
Wow...I wouldn't have banned him but OK. This is an example of a typical elitist "music snob" who thinks they are in the know because they love some obscure nobody that the rest of the world doesn't give two shits about.

So go ahead Paul (and I know you're reading this) name your kids after Eric Johnson and every other street musician you want. The man sucks when compared to Hendrix, not to mention he worships at Jimi's fucking altar. Continue to listen to your bullshit EJ's and Journey's and REO's and all that souless, robotic garbage you like. Oh, and fuck your "god" too. Hypocrite.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

Offline Dunrobin

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2009, 08:27:18 AM »
Boy, are some people touchy!  And you didn't even tell him he had sand in his vagina!   ::)

I don't understand people who get themselves so worked up over what are relative inconsequentials.  There are certainly a lot more important things going on in the world to lose your cool over than a disagreement over the musical abilities of other people.  Oh, well.   :-\

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2009, 09:36:43 AM »
Jim, I'd still seriously like to see a list of musicians you like.  I know you like The Beatles/John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Pre '72/'74 Stones (not sure how you feel about the last couple of Mick Taylor albums), Nirvana, and maybe a few other bands, but I figure you listen to more than that.


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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2009, 10:35:29 AM »
Whoa! What happened here? I wake up and see that we lost a Team Stooge and over something so petty. I just lost all the respect I had for Paul. This wasn't going to get him banned because there was nothing he did wrong. He could debate all he wants and challenge Jim on his opinion and not get banned.

I even PMed this guy asking why he absent from the site for so long. He claimed he was upset about that "God" battle that he had earlier and he felt that Jim was going to ban him over his opinion. I've been a member of this site a lot longer than him and I've never seen Jim ban anyone because they disagree with him on something. I tried explaining to him about that and apparently, he didn't listen. The reason why so many idiots have been banned in the past is because those people flat out disrespected the moderators, not because of their opinions.

When people here debate over an opinion here, it may cause one person to get angry. In my opinion, this is fine as long as it doesn't get out of hand and result to anything personal. So, Paul's post before where he said Jim was pissed off just didn't make any sense. Whether he was or not really doesn't matter. Nothing was getting out of hand at that point and nobody got personal. So, that was fine. Everything was going ok until that last post of Paul's. I have no idea why he thought he was going to get banned. Oh wait. Paul likes Eric Johnson and named his son after him. Yeah, that's against the rules here and he should get banned. ::)

Offline shemps#1

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2009, 11:05:08 AM »
I suppose I should explain my "fuck your god" comment by stating that I was referring mainly to his assertion that Eric Johnson was a "god" (...part of it might have also been a shot at his religion, after all I am an asshole). He was so afraid that I was going to ban him or chew him out based on his opinion yet he was the one who flew off the handle based on an opinion that differed from his. As X pointed out I was never "pissed off", if anything this douche was projecting his anger onto me.

Acute Sandy Vaginosis is a very serious disease from which Paul apparently suffers. If only there were some charitable organizations to help generate money to find a cure for ASV: perhaps incidents like this can be avoided.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2009, 11:26:32 AM »
Acute Sandy Vaginosis is a very serious disease from which Paul apparently suffers. If only there were some charitable organizations to help generate money to find a cure for ASV: perhaps incidents like this can be avoided.

I just checked and ASVcure.com is an available domain name.   It's probably just as well that I don't have a lot of free time on my hands these days or I would be so tempted to put together a web site.  >:D

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2009, 11:33:11 AM »
Jim, I'd still seriously like to see a list of musicians you like.  I know you like The Beatles/John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Pre '72/'74 Stones (not sure how you feel about the last couple of Mick Taylor albums), Nirvana, and maybe a few other bands, but I figure you listen to more than that.



Just for you, inaugural Master Debater!

Beatles/John Lennon: top of my list
Jimi Hendrix: definite #2
Rolling Stones: I'd go as far as to say pre '80
The Doors
The Who
Elton John: 70's
Johnny Cash
Robert Johnson
Billie Holliday
Other Beatles solo: much more selective with George and Ringo...a scant handful of McCartney solo tunes (which I described in his induction)
Willie Nelson
Nirvana
Smashing Pumpkins
Run DMC
NWA: "The world's most dangerous group" and the first musical group of any kind I became a "fan" of...I still have a soft spot for them
AC/DC
Black Sabbath: Ozzy only, no Dio
Metallica
Guns N Roses: These are really the only two 80's metal bands I like
Jethro Tull
Beastie Boys
Rush
Sex Pistols
David Bowie
Beach Boys: Pet Sounds is one of top 5 albums ever made
CSNY
Neil Young
Otis Redding
Jim Croce
Little Ritchard
BDP
Elvis Presley: mainly his early rock and some later tunes....no country, hymns or anything like that
Chuck Berry
Queen
Stevie Wonder
Eric Clapton/Cream/Blind Faith
The Supremes
James Taylor (I have a douchamental side too)
Kenny Rogers: a couple of songs
Lou Reed/Velvet Underground
Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
Marvin Gaye
Sweet
Prince (yeah, I said it!)
Waylon Jennings
Ray Charles
Soundgarden
STP
Big Mama Thornton
Muddy Waters
Mamas and Papas

This is by no means a complete list, nor is it in any order except Lennon/Beatles #1 and Jimi #2.
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish." - Unknown

Offline metaldams

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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2009, 12:06:31 PM »
Just a few random comments on who you listed.

Rolling Stones: I'd go as far as to say pre '80:  I agree.  TATTOO YOU has some good tunes on it.

The Who:  Getting more into them lately.  LIVE AT LEEDS may be the best live album ever.  Have you checked out the Kinks 60's and early 70's material at all?  Ray Davies was an awesome songwriter...still is, actually.


Other Beatles solo: much more selective with George and Ringo...a scant handful of McCartney solo tunes (which I described in his induction): I appreciate George's stuff more the older I get.  Listening to 33 1/3 a lot lately.

Nirvana:  Appreciating the grunge thing slightly more the older I get.

Run DMC:  Not a rap fan, but I at least respect the pioneers more than what's out today.

AC/DC:  Hell yes, especially the Bon Scott era.  B.J.'s done a few good albums and singles as well.

Black Sabbath: Ozzy only, no Dio: I go as far as 1983 to the BORN AGAIN album with Ian Gillan.  I'm a big Deep Purple fan.

Metallica:  You know how I feel.  My favorite band.

Guns N Roses: These are really the only two 80's metal bands I like:  First band I ever got into.

Jethro Tull:  Love Ian Anderson.  MINSTREL IN THE GALLERY is my favorite Tull album.
 
Rush:  Another great band.

Sex Pistols:  Love Steve Jones's guitar tone, hate Johnny Rotten's vocals.  If I had to pick a punk band, it'd be The Clash.

David Bowie:  Very interesting artist, discovered him in the last few years.

Beach Boys: Pet Sounds is one of top 5 albums ever made:  I too LOVE PET SOUNDS.  SUNFLOWER is also a great album.  Like their mature period better than their more popular period or even worse, when they became a nostalgia act.


Little Ritchard:  Own THE GEORGIA PEACH compilation.  It's great, and I was shocked over how many of those songs I already knew.

Elvis Presley: mainly his early rock and some later tunes....no country, hymns or anything like that:  Mostly agree.

Queen: Big fan.  QUEEN II and A NIGHT AT THE OPERA especially.

Stevie Wonder:  Probably my favorite R&B artist.

Eric Clapton/Cream/Blind Faith:  I've been thinking about getting that Crossroads box whenever I get the money.  Been digging early Jeff Beck as of late.  You may disagree, but once upon a time, Rod Stewart kicked ass.  It's hard to believe for those of us who grew up in the 80's and 90's.


Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin;  Both obvious, and I'm glad Robert Plant is not getting back with Zeppelin.  A rare classic rocker who knows when to leave his band's untarnished legacy intact.




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Re: #8: Journey
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2010, 10:33:09 AM »
Who cares if its corporate rock, As long as you enjoy the music, and it makes you feel good. Thats what is important. My advise, dont listen to any new music then, as everything is corporate music today.